A Brief Note about Greenwood
If you came across this blog by looking up “Greenwood Bible Baptist Church” or “Todd Poynter”, you may have read some things that put this church and this man in a bad light. I would ask you to keep in mind that I have not said nor do I say that this church or this pastor is at fault in the John Price affair. I would remind the reader that John Price no longer works for this church or this pastor. Todd Poynter did the right thing. He protected the church. Greenwood Bible Baptist Church did the right thing.
The name of Christ is glorified when we deal with sin properly. We live in a fallen world, and we are fallen creatures. Men will fall into sin. Sometimes, men will fall into gross and infamous sin. When they do, it is very important how the people of God respond. If we avert our gaze, turn our eyes, and ignore the sin, then we certainly “give Christ a black eye,” so to speak. But if we respond in a Biblical fashion, if we deal with the sin and refuse to cover it, then we honor the Lord.
That men, including pastors, fall into sin is no indictment against Christ. Nor should we allow any person to slander Christ’s name because men sin. Rather, the wickedness of men reveals the righteousness of Christ in a greater and more meaningful way. The despicable acts of men shows the power of Christ in cleansing men from sin. The many wrongdoings of men remind us that Christ did not come to save us from a few “mistakes.” He came to forgive evil, and to take it away. He carried our sins in his own body on the cross, and when the Father placed those sins on Him, then the Father proceeded to punish Christ as if He Himself were the one who committed these sins. By this, Christ is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him. Only Christ has the power to defeat evil and to drive it from the face of the earth.
Far from exposing the weaknesses of the Christian faith, great evil and famous sins reveal the hopelessness of humanity apart from Christ. For, despite all of our best efforts at reforming men like John Price, society has never been able to make any real or lasting difference. Only Christ has the power to save men from their sins.
Please do not judge Pastor Poynter too harshly. He was placed in a very difficult position by this whole ordeal, especially as John Price denies all the charges which have been substantiated against him. Unfortunately, Price refuses either to acknowledge his sin or to deal with his accusers. Instead, he insists on running from these things, always looking for another church where he can continue in his evil ways. Thus, Price put Poynter in an extremely awkward and difficult position. I appreciate Pastor Poynter’s decision in this.
We trust that God will bring John Price to a place of true repentance.
The name of Christ is glorified when we deal with sin properly. We live in a fallen world, and we are fallen creatures. Men will fall into sin. Sometimes, men will fall into gross and infamous sin. When they do, it is very important how the people of God respond. If we avert our gaze, turn our eyes, and ignore the sin, then we certainly “give Christ a black eye,” so to speak. But if we respond in a Biblical fashion, if we deal with the sin and refuse to cover it, then we honor the Lord.
That men, including pastors, fall into sin is no indictment against Christ. Nor should we allow any person to slander Christ’s name because men sin. Rather, the wickedness of men reveals the righteousness of Christ in a greater and more meaningful way. The despicable acts of men shows the power of Christ in cleansing men from sin. The many wrongdoings of men remind us that Christ did not come to save us from a few “mistakes.” He came to forgive evil, and to take it away. He carried our sins in his own body on the cross, and when the Father placed those sins on Him, then the Father proceeded to punish Christ as if He Himself were the one who committed these sins. By this, Christ is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him. Only Christ has the power to defeat evil and to drive it from the face of the earth.
Far from exposing the weaknesses of the Christian faith, great evil and famous sins reveal the hopelessness of humanity apart from Christ. For, despite all of our best efforts at reforming men like John Price, society has never been able to make any real or lasting difference. Only Christ has the power to save men from their sins.
Please do not judge Pastor Poynter too harshly. He was placed in a very difficult position by this whole ordeal, especially as John Price denies all the charges which have been substantiated against him. Unfortunately, Price refuses either to acknowledge his sin or to deal with his accusers. Instead, he insists on running from these things, always looking for another church where he can continue in his evil ways. Thus, Price put Poynter in an extremely awkward and difficult position. I appreciate Pastor Poynter’s decision in this.
We trust that God will bring John Price to a place of true repentance.
Labels: John Price
posted by Dave Mallinak | 8:56 AM
23 Comments:
Pastor Mallinak,
My understanding is that Price did take another church or church postion. I am not sure if Pastor Poynter is aware, but if he is and he didn't do what he could to stop it, he will be guilty for the attacks John Price makes on that congregation
Cathy, where did you hear this? I would like to know that and also where the church is if you know. Please tell me as soon as you can.
You fake Christians make me sick. You are of your father the devil!
Anonymous said...
You fake Christians make me sick. You are of your father the devil!
Pastor Mallinak, I think John Price has been reading your blog again
I just want to interject a comment here.
No, I don't all the details about the accusations that have been made. I don't know everything there is to know about John Price. But I do personally know both John Price and Todd Poynter.
Let me address your treatment of John Price first. This blog is entirely unbiblical. If these accusations have any merit whatsoever, they must be brought before the civil authorities as per Romans 13. This blog will not and cannot resolve this conflict. All that this blog succeeds in doing is sowing discord among brethren. God says that is an abomination to Him. See Proverbs 6:19. I can say though, that in all the time I have known John Price, he has carried himself as a Christian should, in all areas of his life that I have been privy to. Again, I repeat, if there is anything at all, do what is right.
About Pastor Todd Poynter...
Just because he refuses to accept what he feels is inadequate evidence as condemnation of guilt does not give you the right to slander him and his church. Pastor Poynter has already been judged too harshly (see several of Cathy's comments) because Dave Mallinak was unwilling to follow the Biblical pattern in resolving this conflict. Pastor Poynter can only do what he feels is the Biblical course of action with the information that he has been given. Your attacks upon his integrity are unjustified.
As the pastor of a Baptist church, surely Dave Mallinak is familiar with the Baptist Distinctive regarding the Bible as the sole authority in every area of our lives. Perhaps he should have been much more careful in making his decision which has affected perhaps more people than even he was prepared for.
Recently, some anonymous comments have been sniping. There really isn't much to say to them. They want to hide, and I don't want to seek, so let them have at it.
After all of this time, we finally have someone who thinks I shouldn't have done this. I am surprised that it took this long to get anyone who thought I was wrong and said so. Probably there are others, I have just been surprised that I didn't here more of this, and more often.
When I originally posted about Price, I expected to get smacked and smacked hard. I thought I would get many who would oppose me. I didn't. It seems that the rest of Fundamentalism is fed up with the kinds of goings-on that characterized John Price's ministry.
Now, Daniel, let me answer you. First, I will confess that there are times when my actions are not in line with Scripture. However, this is not one of those times. I Timothy 5:20 tells us, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." The passage is speaking of elders, and we are told not to receive an accusation against one except before two or three witnesses (v. 19). I have obeyed this. I am a witness, and I have three others. Four in fact. Pastor Poynter has spoken with at least one of the victims. Others have added their testimony on this site. We are not making unwarranted accusations. We are exposing a man for what he is, and we are warning others so that they will not be jeopardized.
If you read my initial post on this issue (Profile of a Predator Pastor), you might note that we did turn this over to the police. But that part, unfortunately, gives you opportunity to say that we are false witnesses.
This is one of the factors that makes John's crimes so very heinous. When a pastor uses his position to lure teen aged girls, his crime is worse than if a family friend lures the same girl. It should not surprise us that the victims would fear to come forward. After all, society typically will not believe the victim because of WHO they are accusing.
Not only that, but because of the nature of these crimes, there are no witnesses. What I witnessed, and what Price admitted to me, is enough (or should be enough) to keep him out of the ministry for the rest of his life. But men like Daniel will take up for him, and enable him to continue in the ministry.
So, Daniel, I will ask you a question. Should churches be warned about Dave Hyles, or would that be unbiblical? Should his case be made public? Or should we all keep it quiet, since this is a matter for the civil authorities, and we should consider him innocent until proven guilty.
Todd Poynter spoke personally with at least one of the victims. He and I have spent plenty of time on the phone discussing this. I am a witness. Does he still call this "inadequate evidence"? How about comments made on this blog by Cathy and Jessica?
This blog is not attempting to "resolve this conflict." This blog has one simple goal, and that is to expose a wolf, and warn the sheep. I suppose that pointing out a wolf to the other sheep might offend some of the sheep who have grown fond of the wolf. But then again, I suppose that it would be better for the sheep to suffer a little "discord" than it would be for the sheep to be devoured.
But Daniel, you illustrated for me exactly what my point has been. When one meets John Price, one is likely to think that he is all that you say. Price knows how to carry himself. And that is why the sheep must be warned.
And, Cathy is right. If Poynter is helping, or hiding Price while he tries to get that church in Columbus, then Poynter will share in the responsibility for whatever Price does.
To my knowledge as a member of GBBC Pastor Poynter has not recommend Price for a position and he, Price, has virtually dropped from radar at the church. Pastor Poynter is very wise when it comes to matters such as these and I don not believe he would put anyone in harm's way.
One might wonder if you aren't trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, you say that you are innocent because you removed Price --- "you wouldn't put anyone in harm's way" --- and on the other hand, you claim that the charges are without merit. If this blog is entirely unbiblical, and if he "refuses to accept what he feels is inadequate evidence" then why did he let Price go?
There must be some merit and evidence to these charges. There must be some reason that Price was removed.
Am I to think that if I had never written this blog, you would have removed Price anyway? Really? So, the blog had nothing to do with it? You would have done the right thing, publicity or not? Seriously? If I had simply sent a note to the Pastor (as I did), talked to him on the phone (as I did), offered to send him any information that he needed (as I did), but left it off the internet, he would be gone anyway?
Somehow, I doubt that. Something tells me that it was the publicity of this blog that brought about this conclusion.
Of course, I could be wrong...
Was that last comment meant for me? I don't know the entire story, just what has been printed here. All I know is we were told the Price would no longer be working at the school or church, then he just disappeared. I saw his daughters at church but not him or Terri. I have faith in my Pastor that he is handling the situation biblically. BTW, I am not Daniel.
When you comment anonymously, I don't know who I am talking to.
In my post, I tried to give Pastor Poynter the benefit of the doubt. However, some of the comments on this are causing me to scratch my head.
I just love ostrich syndrome. Folks, just because YOU didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I'm sorry that the folks at Greenwood are mixed up in this but please know that John Price disqualified himself from ministry a long time ago and in the long run, this is good for you. This is Biblical, and that is our ultimate goal, is it not? To be Biblical? To be holy and without blame before HIM?
I was recently directed to this blog and lots of things make sense now!! I know understand why Pastor Poynter removed Price so quickly and why he did not recommend him to the church in Ohio. It may also explain why Price has quit coming to most church services and is trying to sell his house. Last time I spoke to him he was very gruff and aggrevated. I will pray that my Pastor stays true to God and warns others of Price, I always thought he seemed too "perfect"
Dave,
My purpose was never to debate with you the rightness or wrongness of the accusations that you have made against John Price. I am not in the position of being able to judge this matter. Besides, by your own account, this matter has already been brought before the authorities that God has instituted to judge these kinds of matters. Namely, the police and court systems. What happened to you submitting yourself to "every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake?" You can't pick and choose which scripture to apply to this situation. By putting this online, you have done nothing more than attempt to have this matter rejudged, which is unbiblical. Yes, if you had found out that John Price was seeking another pastorate and you attempted to warn that particular church, that would be one thing. But this blog is nothing but libel. It would have been justifiable for you to warn a particular church. It is not biblical for you to smear a man's reputation and tarnish the reputation of several more good men for all the world to see.
On another note, the accuracy of these accusations themselves have nothing to do with John Price being in a position of leadership. The fact is that John Price is not blameless. That, in and of itself, would have been reason enough for Pastor Poynter to dismiss him. Being so pious as to assume that you were the one who caused this action is foolish.
I only found out about this site earlier this week, but after reading the many comments posted, feel it important to tell my story. I also can attest to the many stated facts in these blogs, as many of the stories are referring to me.
I must say that reading through this site, seeing the many people that I spent my childhood with speak with support and not with judgement was quite a shock for me. I have for so many years carried so much guilt and shame, that I never expected this response.
One mentioned returning to the site of our church, which is now a retail site, and remembering so many happy memories. I too remember so many fun times and friendships. But I also have nightmares of that same place, and feelings of dread just driving into the parking lot of the retail store.
For those that may doubt validity in this or wonder why I may not have stopped what happened over a period of 3 years - let me start by saying that this pastor was a master of manipulation. Looking back now, I realize where the manipulation started, with conversations emphasizing my insecurities as a young girl, putting doubt in my mind about the relationships I had with my family and father, then comforting me, listening to me, and offering to be my "father". I trusted him, and he used that trust.
Once the abuse began, the comforting, kind "father figure" became controlling and threatening. I was confused, ashamed, and scared. He would often tell me that God had a purpose for everyone - a mission for their life. Mine was just this. He would tell me over and over that no one would ever believe me - after all, he was the pastor - the man of God. And that if I ever said a word - he would shame me in front of the entire church - that he would make me out to be a liar and worse. I had no doubt in my mind that he would do this - I had seen it happen to other people in different circumstances.
The worst part came the day I thought I was pregnant - and he offered to either drive me to Indianapolis for an abortion, or ship me off to the west coast and provide money for me. I was terrified, and alone.
Hope finally came when he announced he was leaving to go to Fairhaven. For the first time, I realized that I would be ok. I finished high school, went on to college a stronger person - determined that this would never happen again. 8 months later, I began college, and he was there for the first 6 months of my freshman year. But that 8 months had made me determined that I would not let this happen again.
For years, I carried this burden of guilt and shame - guilt that I didn't tell someone, guilt that it was my fault. I didn't want anyone to know about it - because I was so ashamed.
Now, I look back at that time of my life. I can see how it made me the strong person that I am today. As difficult as it was, it molded me and prepared me and I am proud to have not only survived it, but to have a happy, healthy relationship with my husband and a wonderful family today.
I want to thank Pastor Dave for being where he was when he was - for trying to stop what was happening. I didn't have the courage or strength at the time to agree, but he was brave and persistent and I will remember it forever.
John Price used to say - you will never forget me as long as you live - because this will ruin your life. My only comment to him is that it didn't - he didn't win!
For all my classmates at Freedom Baptist, reading this blog makes me remember the fun times. I realize that last summer there was a bit of a reunion - and for obvious reasons, I chose not to attend. I hope someday in the future there will be another and that I will be able to attend. I would love the chance to see you again.
To "anonymous",
Hon, you would have been welcomed with open arms! We do hope to do another reunion and expect to see you there. :)
Dear Anonymous,
It is interesting he played the father bit to you too, that is what he was doing to me as well. He is one manipulating man.
We all will remember John Price, and the memory will not be a good one and Praise God he didn't win in any of our lives. He may have tackled us, but he didn't destroy us. As long as we take our eyes off of man, and put our eyes on Jesus Christ, men like John Price will never win.
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
We did have a lot of goodtimes, and made many good friends. Many good ones that helped me in my teen years and many in my adult years. That I am thankful for.
As for Daniel, it is ironic that you keep baslting Pastor Mallinak for his blog, you are doing the exact same thing you are accusing him of.
Also let me reiterate that I don't know if Pastor Poynter is helping Price find a church or not. All I know is that if he is, he will be guilty for anyone Price attacks, because he didn't stop him when he could have. That may be something that is left just between him and God.
I also want to say many too the many readers of this blog that know the Price and attend Pastor Poynter's church. Your Pastor did a good thing by protecting you. You may be confused, we all know what a manipualtive wolf John Price is. We know his eloquent speech, we all sol know how he can talk anyone to believing anything, kind of reminds me of the serpent and Eve's discussion. But we have painfully seen the results in trusting in this man. As confused as you maybe, don't look at John Price or even any of us for the answers. Remember God's Word is where each and everyone one of us should be looking.
Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Cathy,
Not once have I impugned Dave's character. Matthew 18 gives the guidelines for settling a matter between brethren. I have absolutely no problem with Pastor Mallinak doing what he feels is right and warning others about a person he feels is a threat. The issue I have is with the method utilized to accomplish that purpose. I have no reason to doubt his testimony so I have tried to treat him as the brother in Christ that he is. I do not have any other way of communicating with Dave, so I have used the only means available - this blog. I cannot judge Dave's motives, I'm sure they are pure and well-intentioned. All I have tried to do is show from the Bible why it was neither wise nor right for this blog to have materialized for the reason stated, that of "exposing a wolf." I have responded in this blog because there are several other people involved (Yourself, Jessica Baker, and the several anonymous people)who I felt also needed to see what was said.
Daniel,
Keep coming. I don't think that you are doing what you are accusing me of. I invited the kinds of responses you have made. Feel free to make them.
However, there is a place for this, Scripturally, as I have pointed out.
Daniel,
"The issue I have is with the method utilized to accomplish that purpose
and
I do not have any other way of communicating with Dave, so I have used the only means available - this blog."
We have no way of communicating with potential victims of Price other then this blog. It is the same argument Daniel.
The fact of the matter is John Price is a predator, you may not want to believe it, you may want to defend this man, you only know his deceptive side, you have never fell victim to his prey. You have seen where more then three witnesses have accused this man of immorality, that is the biblical approach.
The Biblical approach is to warn others that this man is lurking for a postion of leadership where he can gain control and power, where he can possibly hurt others again. Since this man is good at covering his footsteps and lying about his past, not just what we accuse here, but even in his own resume, here is a link to what I mean. http://www.preachingchrist.com/page7.html
Daniel look at this man's bio, why is it he so convenietly left out his postion at Fairhaven Baptist Church/College if the statements made were not true? What is he trying to hide?
It is proof that he is trying to cover his footsteps. He isn't going to easily let us find out where he is and what postion he has, the reason being he doesn't want us warning the pastor and church of his misdeeds, his horrible sin he committed with teenage girls, the way he destroyed a church and attempted to destroy lives.
I have not said what I have said to hurt John Price. I say what I say because I believe this man needs serious help. If you recall looking at my comments, I was the only one that didn't doubt his salvation, infact, I defended him when the subject was brought up. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean I can sit by and be idle when I know he has the potential to destroy more lives.
John Price is sneaky,(he isn't a stupid man, he is brillant) he will not attempt to do such horrific actions again until he has complete trust from his church. I also dare say he probably won't do it again until he is a senior pastor of his church, when he has absolutely no one to answer too.
Daniel, this may be very hard for you except. I do understand why. I am not angry with you, I do have pity for you because of the situation is devasting, especially when you here such horrible accounts about a man you have trusted, loved, and possibly admired. We all have been where you are, we do understand. I will pray for you and for peace concerning the situation
God Bless,
Cathy McNabb
Dave,
I appreciate very much the willingness you have shown to at least listen to what I have had to say.
Unfortunately, it does seem that we have reached an impasse in our conversation. We both believe that there is scriptural justification for the stand we are taking. And quite frankly, I will respect that. As a Baptist, I believe also in Individual Soul Liberty - the right you have to follow what you believe is the Holy Spirit's leading as you interpret the Bible. I do not want our conversation to degrade to the point were all we can do is sling mud at each other.
I have read everything you have posted about predator pastors and all the comments that have been posted in response, and I will continue to follow this blog. But, if nothing else is posted which I feel needs to be responded to in the same manner I have responded to this, this will be my last posting. My purpose of pointing out what I believe is an error has been accomplished. That is all I have tried to do, and this is where I will stand. What is done now is between the individual and God.
Allow me one more exhortation, if you will, before I end. Keep following Scripture. Keep relying upon God's Word to justify any stand you take. If there are any questions you have for me, feel free to post them, as I said I will try to continue following this blog and will respond to any questions addressed.
daniel said...
by your own account, this matter has already been brought before the authorities that God has instituted to judge these kinds of matters. Namely, the police and court systems...By putting this online, you have done nothing more than attempt to have this matter rejudged, which is unbiblical... But this blog is nothing but libel.
First of all, this was never brought to court for John Price to be judged by man. There are several reasons why, which I can explain later if you would like to know some of them. Secondly, if this is libel and John Price is innocent, why isn't he fighting this? If my husband had these accusations brought against him time after time, I know we would BOTH be fighting this, but yet you never hear from John or his wife. I wonder why that is... I would almost like to see John try to sue for libel. Maybe then we could see some justice done.
Unfortunately for John Price, we live in an information age - the computer is at our fingertips, and this is the best way to get information out. I also believe it is our duty not to be vengeful, but warn other pastors and churches of John's conduct from our personal experience. I spoke personally with Pastor Poynter about my experiences with John Price. I asked him if he had any questions, which he did, and I did my best to answer them. This is not a witch hunt, but don't we owe it to potential new victims of this man to do everything in our power to stop him?
Pastor M
you do not need to post this comment. Just thought you might like taking at look at this link
http://grace-n-truth.blogspot.com/2007/04/job-of-pastor.html
I don't know Price, and have never met him. I live in NW Indiana. My brother moved down to Indy four years ago and attends the church in Greenwood. He was married there a few years ago. I agree with Dave and everyone on this post about this man. He should be in jail and honeslty deserves what comes to him. However, the point of this is to say how much I've enjoyed my visits to church in Greenwood. I've only been there maybe 4 times in three four years, but I love the preaching of Pasot Poynter. He is a man of God, and God is blessing that church. When I talked to my brother, he made it clear that Pastor was doing everything he could do, and making sure he gave this man no chance of going anywhere else. I don't know a lot about this situation. But unlike many people in Utah, I've meet this man, and can't see how he would help this individual out. I believe he took care of business, as soon as he learned of anything. The bad thing is to many people before Greenwood did nothing. This probably won't be read due the last online post, but wanted to add that. Pastor Poyner is a great preacher, and has really been a blessing to my brother, who I thought would never attend church on a regular basis. Know I am sitting here wanting what Greenwood has in NW Indiana.
Thank you
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